I just saw the ad at Zachary Music for this horn. It looks pretty impressive. Does anyone who has played it want to give us your opinion?
I stumbled onto the same website. I too would like to hear about these horns. Anyone seen one, played one, have an opinion?
So what's the verdict? How do these horns play? The add says that they are designed on the old Mt. Vernon design, which in my mind would make them excellent horns if they live up to the original, but for the prices listed, it makes me wonder if they can really be that good. Anyone?
You know, I believe they have a trial period. It couldn't hurt to give one a go and tell the results.
The third valve stop rod looks like a Benge rod which is also what the Kanstul Chicago rod looks like. Also, the only horns I've seen with the rubber in the spit valve leavers were Bessons and Kanstuls. I'd go with Kanstul on those two counts.
I have been to the Kanstul factory and showroom and it sure looks like that's where the pictures were taken.
The heck with where they're made. who is going to get one and play test it and report back to us?
If you make the arrangements, I will (I'm a shy guy). I live but a stones throw away (less than a mile) so shipping costs can be kept to nil. I could compare the Zeus G to my 1980'ish Bach Strad and Wild Thing... Unfortunately (more likely fortunately), I don't have any recording equipment to document the comparisons -- so you would be stuck with my subjective opinion based on my meagre skills... So better yet, plan a trip to Ottawa Canada and I'll let you stay in my guest room, free (I'm sure the cats won't mind). David
I asked Alex of Zachary Music where the Zeus was manufactured. This is his reply:
Quote: From: Zachary Music [mailto:info@zacharymusic.com] Sent: October 30, 2002 1:01 PM Subject: Re: Zeus Guarnerius
Thanks for letting me know about the forum. I can not tell anyone where these trumpets are made. ZeuS is my exclusive line of custom designed instruments and I want to keep it that way. I am just very glad to be able to have them. I created this trumpet by approaching one of the best trumpet makers to replicate my 1953 Bach Mt.Vernon. I have never had one returned to date and everyone has been very impressed. I know I would sell more of them if I raised the price. As silly as that sounds. I will not raise the price because I would like to make these trumpets affordable for all serious players even the ones that do not have a lot of money. I would also like to get them into the hands of really serious high school and college students. Most less knowledgeable band directors only recommend one brand (which drives me crazy) so I would like to blow them away with this horn. Therefore, this instrument will remain affordable for everyone. If they don't take it seriously because of the low price then its their own loss. I have been busy introducing the new finishes such as Antique Brushed Lacquer, Copper and Raw Brass. This way there is a lot of choice for any player. I don't post much to forums so please free to post my message if you like. AlexAbsolutely beautiful... and same goes for those tell-tale close-ups. My beloved Callet Jazz and C horns have EXACTLY the same valve clusters, finger rings..and bell bracing and bottom valve caps...BUT GEE! WHAT BEAUTIFUL PEARL VALVE BUTTONS? Look as pretty as the ones on my old Paris Selmer? How much$$$$ for 6 buttons for my Symphonique C horn. That professional bunished finish on the pro horn looks equally awesome! That wonderful PRO CORNET!!! WOW! Can Ziggy have it plated in Gold???/ AND LOOKS LIKE I GOTTA GO FOR THAT WONDERFULLY PRICED PRO FLUG....THAT TRULY IS A KEEPER OF A PRICE..AND ONLY $50.00FOR THE VALVE KICKER... GET OUT THE PLASTIC MONEY GUYS....WE HAVE A GOLD MINE BLESSING HERE!!! What a beautiful BUY PLAN....NO ONE SHOULD BE WITHOUT A QUALITY HORN...EVER AGAIN???? HUH???? TRULY BEAUTIFUL EQUIPMENT... THIS IS TRULY RUBY...NAW DIAMOND TUESDAY!!! ))) Like winning a Lotto, Almost????
***** WHERE ARE THE SKEPTICS ?? ****
So the devil's advocate might ask: If a small Canadian operation can approach a manufacturer such as Kanstul (not saying it is Kanstul) and say "build me a trumpet based on my 1953 Mt Vernon Bach Strad- so I can sell it as a professional model at half the price of today's Selmer's" then: Why isn't every instrument sales company jumping on the bandwagon? Speculation: requires time and money to establish and promote a private brand. What makes a "professional" instrument? Usually we answer, "fine craftmanship, outstanding design, combined with fine tolerances." Without firsthand experience, none of us can substantiate the "professional" designation of the horn -- Thus we ask, who makes it. Yes, I know that this thread began by asking who has played one -- and I haven't. Why the secrecy as to who actually manufactures the horn? -- knowing this could actually be a selling point. I suspect many of us try to assign/guess quality based on the manufacturer. We could approach Kanstul (based on the factory pictures) but Kanstul likely has signed a non-disclosure agreement. David
PS: The Zeus G may be an outstanding horn, professional or otherwise, for the money. Too bad none of us seem to have tried one, yet.I find this very interesting from a lot of angles. I bet I will be asking some questions. whether I get answers or not... I am guessing the horns are pretty nice for the money and I like the way this guy thinks from a consumers standpoint. He is probably right about the fact that people would think they are better if they cost twice as much. He has probably made an investment in this project that not just anyone would be willing to make. Just guessing. all the way. If there is a non-disclosure agreement, I wonder who doesn't want to be disclosed and why. It is pretty obvious there are Kanstul horns in the factory tour photos. How big a secret is it. Quality craftsmanship and all that jazz. I used to work in a shoe factory when I was in school. We made treks for Clarke and Sears and Penneys. Same design, but not the same quality. lots of differences the average person would never imagine. The design is a big aspect of a horn, and if this is a copy of a MT Vernon, then I wonder what the difference is in this and a ZKT 1500B. 25 Leadpipe, 37 bell. I don't know but I don't think they would be using second rate materials. I am pretty sure the most experienced craftsmen are making the most expensive horns. It isn't that quick and easy to learn to build a fine instrument. Just guessing. It was very cool to get a factor tour though. I have not had the oppurtunity to personally visit.
I don't know anything about the Zeus trumpet. Actually, I never heard of it before. But I recently purchased a French Besson Classic, which was manufactured by Kanstul. Before buying the horn, I had some communication with the Kanstul folks as to quality control for trumpets manufactured by Kanstul, but which did not bare the Kanstul name. I was assured that the same quality control standards apply in their factory for each and every horn they produce. If my Besson is an example of Kanstul quality, I can't fault it at all. I'd also bet that, if the Zeus is a Kanstul made copy of a Mt. Vernon Bach, it probably is worth twice the asking price. My next horn is going to be a Lawler, but if I had not already bought the Besson, I'd be ordering a Zeus for try out right now.
Like i said, someone has to bite the bullet and get one (not me of course) I think a pro horn is one that pros will play doesn't matter who makes it or even how it's made, if it sounds good and can be used to make money with. One of you senior "pro" guys has to go get one!
Here's a crazy idea: Ask Todd to see if he can get one to review for the "New Products" section. Zeus guy gets lots of exposure, and we get an answer to our questions. Well, sort of... Todd does! (Gets the answers). Reckon we all gotta' eventually face the fact that the only one who can choose a horn for us is ourselves -- rats!
I'm intrigued enough that I may just have to add the ZeuS to the list of horns to try to scratch my new horn itch. I really like the look of the antiqued brushed model, although it technically could look like hell as long as it played well.
Wooahh....now that's called "putting it on the line". Zach doesn't pull any punches, does he? Anyway, it will be interesting to hear what someone has to say about the Zeus. (Doo de dooo dooo). Great, isn't it? All these interesting and purportedly great horns coming along at decent prices just when certain "established manufacturers" are raising prices, increasing production rates, and lowering quality control standards. Do we live in a great era or what?
Alex,
I like what you have to say with regard to your goals. I am going to ramble a bit so just bear with me.
When I was a young engineer at Cape Canaveral it was the custom to go TGIFing on Fridays after work. A friend who happened to drink Dewars(sp?) had only drank a couple when the owner of the club came over and bought a round. When the order was taken my friend was informed by the owner that he did not stock Dewars. My friend was insulted to find that he had been drinking Cutty. Seems to me my friend just thought his drink had to be Dewars.All my rambling to say that if it looks as good as your pictures and plays like a pro horn then a pro horn it is. I might have bought one last winter, but didn't play well enough to do a meaningful test drive. I wanted to be sure that any limitations were mine and not the horn I was playing . . . so
I bought a Wild Thing. Now that I can play above a high C, I may consider lowering my investment in the future and trying your Zeus or one of pair of kings' Kanstuls.
I wish you every success, and hope to see an evaluation on TH soon.Hi all who have been talking about the zeuS Gaurnarius.
Well, I would like you to know that I own this mysterious horn all of you have been talking and wondering about. It is true that only you can decide and choose if you like the horn. It is a personal thing...I personally like the horn. I am a poor music student, and was looking for a Pro Quality horn. I bought my previous horn from Zachary's and was pleased with it (and the great service Alex provides!!) I find the zeuS "G" very smooth, valves work nice and smoothly, my tone quality improved with this horn...it isn't as hard to produce the nicer tones...
I own both the zeus "G" cornet and trumpet-- and both are wonderful. I fully recommend this horn. I am in the Maple Leaf Brass Band...and most of the cornet section has tried both horns (the cornet and trumpet)...and they all look at it after playing it and say "wow" and have that puzzled look on their face! My private teacher who is one of the trumpet players in the National Arts Centre Orchestra has tried both horns...and he likes it too. So, David...the person who can spit at Alex's shop/house...e-mail or phone him and go look at the horn!!! thats all, Kath.
ps. if anyone has any questions...i'll answer them! kathryn4@gosympatico.caJust a little note for readers with respect to Kathryn's post:
The Maple Leaf Brass Band http://mapleleafbrass.homeip.net/band/ is a premier group in my neck of the woods, drawing the best amateur, semi-professional and professional talent.
The National Arts Centre Orchestra http://www.nac-cna.ca/en/naco/allaboutthenacorchestra/nacorchestrahistory/index.html is world reknown and based in Canada's Capital with outstanding trumpet players (Karen Donnelly - principal trumpet; Eric Rupp
- trompet biographies: http://www.nac-cna.ca/en/naco/allaboutthenacorchestra/musicianbiography/brass.html)Kathryn is obviously a capable player adding credence to her testimonial (in my books!). A year or two ago, my community band (Nepean Concert Band http://ncb.trytel.com ) and the Maple Leaf Brass Band shared the stage at the Centrepoint Theatre and we both put on stellar performances. Now if I could only recruit Kathryn to the Nepean Concert Band, I'd be up a trumpet player and get to hear the Zeus G in action. David
I just got confirmation that my Zeus G is on its way. Should be here by Friday. I will post a review of it after I receive it. The first thing I can say is that Zachary Music is EXTREMELY easy to deal with. They got my deal done in no time. I ordered the antique brushed lacquer. Can't wait to get it. Brian
Well here goes.
I know everyone has been waiting for a review of this horn. I have only had it for about an hour so these are strictly first impressions. First let me tell you about the ordering process. I contacted Zachary Music by e-mail to check on the availability of the horn. I received a very quick response from the owner. He said that he had one in stock. I was elated. I was waiting for some funds to arrive from something that I sold on Ebay before I ordered. This was last Friday November 1st. I was later reminded by my wife that we had sales tax to pay this week on her new vehicle so I wasn't going to have quite enough for the down payment. I contacted the owner of Z Music and explained to him the situation. When he found out that I had discovered his website through Trumpet Herald he was very excited to get the horn into my hands. He worked out another deal with me for a lower down and then higher payments for the remainder. He was very accomodating in this. Otherwise I wouldn't have had a chance to get one til after the first of the year. We worked out all the details and the horn was shipped on Monday. It arrived today. Came by UPS. I took a half day off from work to be home when the horn came but this is the only time UPS has been here before noon. I had to go through a whole big mess to get in touch with the driver and to make arrangements to pick up the horn. I finally picked it up. The case is a Pro Tec case. Very Nice to start with. I opened the case and saw one of the most beautiful finishes on a trumpet I had ever seen. If anyone has seen a Lawler trumpet with brushed lacquer then you will know what this looks like. It is absolutely gorgeous. A mouthpiece was included that is marked Zeus 5C. I didn't even try the mouthpiece because I use a Schilke 14A4 so the 5C would have been huge. Got home with the horn. My wife is usually a harsh critic and has seen a number of horns come through our house. (She has been very understanding and patient with my purchasing and selling.) I popped the mouthpiece into the horn. Put it to my chops. Played up to double C with no warm up. I usually have a pretty good range and can hit double C most of the time. This one was easy. The horn is a lot heavier than the horns I am used to playing. I have never played a Monette or Taylor so I can't speak for the weight on those. But I can say this would have to be considered a heavyweight horn. The tone quality was as nice at the lowest end as it was at the highest end. I played around improvising for a little while. Went high and low and it stayed in tune and had a great tone all the way through. I still need more time to play with it but I am very, very much impressed with the first playing. I will have more time to play around with it tomorrow so I will give you some more feedback then. But overall the first impression is that I have found a great horn at a great price. If you are in the market for a new horn I would highly recommend this one. I will now have to consider the flugel. Hope my wife understands that one. HAHAHA. BrianI need to hear from people that have played these horns. I would like to know are they as good as some people say? Are they as good as a Bach 37 standard weight and a Yamaha Zeno RGS? What do they play like? How is the quality? Any comments about these horns would help.
There have already been two replies in this topic. One was mine. I'll follow up with it. It feels like a heavier horn to me than my Yamaha. The finish is gorgeous. The tone is really pretty until you give it some gas and then it will play over the band. I had a big rehearsal this weekend after getting mine on Friday. The guys in the band thought I sounded way better than on my Yamaha. Quite a compliment considering they all really liked the sound of the Yamaha. I think it is a great horn. The price is phenomenal and I'm looking forward to purchasing a flugel after this one is paid off. Hope this helps. Please feel free to e-mail me at leadtrmptplyr@aol.com if you have any other questions. Brian
I recently started playing more seriously and stumbled across the ZeuS (Zachary) web site as well. I'm saving up the $ for a ZeuS, I'll let you know when I get mine. Unfortunately, I've never had the opportunity to play some of these great horns (new Kanstul customs, Wild Thing, vintage Bachs, Benges, Bessons...), so all I can do is compare it to my mid '80's (UMI) Benge 3X MLP. Alex has been good about answering my questions and seems sincere about keeping the numbers down and quality up. Can anyone explain the difference in the manufacturing process that makes the "new" Bach trumpets inferior to the Mt. Vernon Bach or hand made copies?
For the last two months I've been helping my son (high school junior, jazz enthusiast, probable college music major) select a professional trumpet. He's been wanting an all-around horn since he plays concert and symphonic, in addition to Jazz.
My background? No, I'm not a trumpet player, either professional or amateur. My music background is in piano and oboe. College emphasis in Music History and Music Theory, with my best asset being my ear for hearing subtle differences.
Do these factors make my son and I qualified to evaluate professional trumpets? I certainly think we can evaluate what horn is appropriate for my son at this point in his career. Anyway ...
I started this thread after seeing the ad for the Zeus Guarnerius and wondered if any of you had ever played the instrument. We eventually ordered an Antique Brushed model and found Alex extremely easy to deal with. His quick response to my emails at all hours of the day or night lead me to wonder if he ever sleeps.
I highly recommended that anyone who is looking for a new horn give the Zeus a try. On his website Alex makes the claim that it is an "...unbeatable value when compared to any other professional trumpet with the same specifications." During our search we play-tested every instrument we could get our hands on in the local area (Portland, OR) including Bach, Benge, Calicchio, Conn, Getzen, Kanstul, King, Martin, Selmer, Yamaha ... New and used instruments with prices ranging from $700 to $2000+. I find no reason at all to dispute Alex's claim, it may very well be superior to all instruments we tried with the same specifications.
In the end we purchased a different instrument, a Kanstul 1504. With a 43 mouthpipe, 72-style copper bell, and .460 bore it is not the same specifications and was the instrument which my son liked the most of all the instruments he tried, regardless of what their prices may have been. Does this mean the 1504 is superior to the Zeus, or that it is a better instrument for all players? Of course not, as everyone will have their own preferences for whatever reason.
Alex and I had a lengthy phone conversation (long distance at his expense) as this was the first time his instrument was "rejected" by anyone. I assured him, as I do all of you, I feel the Zeus is a fine trumpet and in many ways superior to others on the market. Throughout the process Alex was a true professional and very pleasant to deal with. So if any of you are holding back due to fear of the internet, or because it is an unknown brand, don't hold back any longer. Give the Zeus a try, it may be exactly what you are looking for.Well.....I got my Zeus Garnerius last Friday and I am driving my wife nuts. She has spent more time away from the house in the last week because I can't put it down. It is an awesome horn with great tone and the resistance is consistent through the entire range of the horn. I got the brushed lacquer finish and it is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen. With the payment plan and this particular model only costing $900 you can't go wrong. It looks unique and has a sound that is easily colored or will blend if you need it to. All I have to do is give it a little air to light it up but when I back off it has the prettiest tone of any horn I have ever owned. Bar none!!! You could save a lot of bucks and still get an excellent horn. You really should consider it. Brian (MO) Leadtrmptplyr@aol.com
I just got the opportunity to play the controversial ZeuS Bb trumpet for the first time today. I have been reading the posts, both good and bad, on this forum for a couple of weeks now. I am generally not convinced of any viewpoint on a specific horn until I have the chance to play one for myself. Well, I did, and my perception of the horn is that it is really, really nice. It does sound much like the Mt. Vernon Bachs that I have played. It really responds great, and the intonation is outstanding. I had a trumpet professor at a local university give it a try, and he, being a Bach man his entire life, was skeptical at first. After playing the horn, however, he could not get over the similarities between the ZeuS and the older Bachs. He was truly impressed, as was I. He even liked the valves on the ZeuS better than the Bach valves. All I will say is this...if you can look past the "cheap" price of the horn, and look past the fact that some feel that the "Bachs of the past" can't be truly duplicated with modern equipment, and you just test play one for yourself, you can make your own judgement call. Let the sound, the feel, and the music help you decide if these are for real or not...don't worry about the nit-picky stuff like which mandrel was used, etc. I really like the horn, and am planning on buying one. I would recommend it to anyone for a test play....you decide for yourself if it is a keeper...I personally think it is. Thanks Alex. Trumpeterb (discussion group)
I feel that the older horns can be duplicated, personally. I have read other posts that disagree. The argument regarding the Bachs is, however, that the original mandrels and other original equipment (even Vincent Bach) are not available anymore. Supposedly, the newer mandrels are not the same. I am not a trumpet maker, so I don't know the true answer. All I know is that my ZeuS is pretty darn close to an exact copy. I really don't care what they used to make it...it is a great horn. Trumpeterb (discussion group)
Good day ZeuS-aphiles! Well, I just got back from testing my ZeuS G. against my friend's (Gene) vintage 50's Strad. Here's the poop: - The sound qualities between the two horns is very, very close as both player and listener - that is beautiful! - The pitch accuracy is the same to our ears (forgot the stupid tuner). - They both play / feel very much alike with the ZeuS having just a bit more resistance, understandable, since the ZeuS is noticably heavier than the Mt.V. - Notes above the staff are clean on both horns. - The valves and slides are freer on the Mt. V. - due to age says Gene - Gene says it's the real deal! and so it continues... Greg (MN)